Oliver North Slams Obama's 'Core Philosophy of Being Anti-American

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBKqwdxUH8U

wouldn't roll on Reagan

I don't understand. What do you mean?

Anyone who served their country as well as Ollie is a hero.

How do you define "as well"? If you are referring to any one that spent as much time serving as North then I'd tend to have less of an issue with that statement. If you mean the specifics of what he did related to Iran-Contra, I'd have to say your opinion pretty much stinks.

Obama is not anti-American in my opinion regardless of who is saying that he is. My advice to you, if that if you want to make that point, is to not have North be your spokesman. Doing so, I think, isn't getting you anywhere.

scott,

You are the worst moderator that I have ever encountered on Newsvine.

I vote up comments but I don't understand what good it does anymore. A few months ago, Newsvine would rank participant on a thread by an never understood metric and post their ranking at the lead of the thread. That way you could see who was getting most traction in a public opinion sense as the discussion progressed. Now they don't do that. If you were one to care about such things, I'd say you'd like the present system. Under the old system, the seeder would most likely rate the highest. In the new system, if the seeder became the one of the most disagreeable participants, it would be very clear.

Okay. I understand you are pissed and why. You can take it is persecution or as an opportunity to tweak how you present things. I know what article you are talking about; I really objected to it. You can look at Newsvine as a game of skirting or abusing the rules, gauging how the community will react and seeing what you can get away with. You will likely find a way to get your point out there in a way that will be viable. If you do, most likely I will disagree with but I won't find a way to convince myself that it is outside of the bounds of acceptable.

Something needs to be done about the gangup mentality the left keeps using on things they disagree with.

perhaps that's just the majority expressing their opinions, maybe, just maybe your opinion is in the minority?

But its still opinion. And flagging opinion as inaccurate is wrong. Everyone has the right to their opinion. And on Newsvine, as long as that opinion is not personally insulting to another member, or trying to disrupt a thread with off subject materials, that opinion should be able to be expressed.

As long as it is your opinion? Why all the deletions? You don't agree, you say this is about President Obama but the opinion presented is from Oliver North. An opinion about the source is valid.

My opinion is that the source is not credible because of his own self confessed actions. For him to express such a negative opinion of the President is a farce. Opinion. About your seed.

You have made references to people here being children, you refuse to debate "opinions" about the subject matter you present. This is a pointless endeavor unless you make a valid attempt to defend your position. If you refuse, why open the door in the first place?

Come on Scott. You can do better than that. And here I was just starting to like you.

But its still opinion. And flagging opinion as inaccurate is wrong.

So is deleting comments that are NOT personal attacks!

None of my comments were "off topic" either!

Man! I feel like I'm in grammar school again!!

Your topic is Ollie and Obama! What did you expect? A big Cumbaya moment, you'll need to go to redstate.com or some similar website if all you want is commiseration.

But Scott

I thought when I joined up that this was a discussion group. A free exchange of ideas and opinions.

Censorship of what you disagree with or what you are tired of hearing about is counterproductive in such an environment.

As I stated above Rodney is one of the people that I respect the most in my time here. I am proud to call him a friend and admire him for the way he communicates with others. He does a better job of staying calm than I do and I find it hard to believe that suddenly he is attacking you.

From what I know of Rodney his opinion of this subject and Oly is not only valid but informed.

President Obama is not anti American. Just to stay on topic.

SayWhat-1315936

Thanks, I appreciate your kind words, thank you...

I will admit that I didn't attack scott but I did push his buttons when he started to delete all of my posts.

None of those comments should have been deleted as they were not directed at any viner.

Truce scott, I give...you see things your way and I see them my way and we'll leave it at that.

No hard feelings and I'll stop pushing your buttons.

Apparently, the Dr. is in. Lay down on the couch, get comfortable and we'll begin.

Really, then why was my opinion article collapsed? Is that some of the free exchange?

Well Scott, I really don't know. You see I don't have the power to collapse your articles. Wouldn't if I did. That would be mean. I'm not mean Scott. I thought we were becoming friends.

I'm not familiar with this particular "opinion piece" so if you could give me a little more information I might be able to figure that out for you.

I'm really tired of the attacks, and the vile, hateful, liberals who keep doing this crap.

I'm sorry that you feel picked on. I've told you before that you should read what you yourself post and really think if it could be offensive. It is.

Maybe you don't mean to offend anyone but you do. If there is backlash it seems that instead of blaming anyone else you should start with figuring out why it happens.

You seem extremely hung up on labels. For yourself and others. Maybe that's the place to start.

You see Scott, when we apply labels to people we separate people. We create a division where none needs to exist.

Repeat after me. "We". Not "us" and "them". Repeat. Until you really believe it.

This is important Scott. The evil Liberals don't exist except in your own mind.

We can't have decent discussion, because of the roving gangs of leftists collpasing everything and everyone they don't agree with, trying to steer the discussions away from the subjects, and trying to disrupt the threads.

Again Scott, this is exactly what I'm talking about. There are no roving gangs of leftists except what you create by applying the labels. They are PEOPLE, individuals who have power because your own words, your labels give them power.

the vile, hateful, liberals

Your own words Scott. Sad but true.

If you guys just want a site where everyone just simply agrees with you, and no real discussions occur, you can have it.

Now Scott, that is just not very productive. I have tried many times to debate with you on your own articles and seeds. Even though you have the power to silence me. And you have. But I keep coming back, calling you on what you say, trying to engage in an honest debate.

I can't remember when I agreed with you once. That would be no fun. I enjoy our little debates. It makes me smile. A lot.

I for one am not going to take it anymore.

Well, if that's the way you feel. I will miss you. But I was really hoping you had more self respect than that.

I heard that once in the sandbox and I really miss that kid. He sure had cool toys. I miss them too.

no prob scott, you weren't the only at fault, I could tell you were irratated...no harm no foul

well, I guess the olive branches mean nothing...SW

Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio: a fellow
of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath
borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how
abhorred in my imagination it is!

Shakespeare's Hamlet

Rodney, my friend, my evil cohort, my partner in the destruction of the....

Oh well. So much for grown up debate salted with a little humor.

What do you say we get on facebook and take Sarah down with a few well placed "roving gangs of leftists" words? If only our anti American leader was a word smith we could rule the world. If only.

I'm sorry Scott that you take all this so personal. I really do enjoy debating with you and hope you feel better and come back soon.

President Obama is not anti American.

sscott:

I was unable to contact anyone to restore it.

I don't think Tyler works every weekend.

Besides, his bannings etc are extremely random, anyway, so I'm not sure that you're going to get the satisfaction you seek. You might hit lucky, though. I think it depends what kind of weekend he's had, mood he's in etc.

As for you disallowing people to talk about North: it is perfectly acceptable in a debate to seek to impeach the authority of the person making a claim.

e.g. When people construct arguments, they usually appeal to three major elements of our consciousness: emotion (pathos), reason (logos) and "authority" (ethos).

The challenges against North are largely challenges to your implied appeal to "ethos." i.e. You are implying that North is an authoritative and reliable source for the (moral) claim that he is making against Obama, and that you are endorsing.

Since you are relying on North's implied authority to build your argument, then it's proper for others to challenge that claimed implication of North's authority.

However, having said that, I tend to agree with you that, once you have confronted those challenges, by, for instance, pointing out that North's convictions did not stand, then you have satisfied your part in rebuttal of that challenge.

Of course, there are several elements to the challenge of North's authority, which, perhaps, are more nuanced than this forum can allow. And, probably, you should be responsible for rebutting all of these nuanced challenges.

But, personally, I think that this is impractical, and that your general rebuttal suffices for the general challenge to North's authority -- in this case it is a claimed moral authorirty.

I think that, if you have made a mistake, it is in disallowing comments on North at the same time you were responding to those comments, particularly since comments on North in response to comments North himself has made are entirely relevant.

The bottom line for me is that it was a mistake for you to ban discussion of North's motives and "credentials" to make a claim against Obama, when the seed you are offering is specifically generated by North's motives and credentials regarding his claim against Obama.

e.g. Would anyone have cared what North said about Obama, and would there even be a seed here, if it wasn't for North's history?

It's relevant.

Just my two cents.

upswing

Good points, all.

My take on this is that in a very brief video of North he simply dismisses the President and that is support that he is "anti-American". It has no basis of fact, only one persons opinion.

And as far as that goes, if that is all that is presented, my opinion and everyone elses here is absolutely just as valid. If no proof is given all we are left with is opinion.

My opinion is Oliver North speaks for himself. I don't respect the man so therefore I can't respect his opinion. If he had given solid facts to back up his statements I would be happy as an open minded individual look at the evidence and make up my own mind if it is valid, reasonable and worth considering. That's all any of us can do.

But I stand by my opinion that President Obama is not anti-American but is indeed a great American.

Rodney

Not just waders, or hip waders, but neck waders. It's getting a little deep.

As far as the name goes we should maybe start a new group and put it up for a vote. Some of my ancestors were Vikings and I'm into sleds so the "roving" part would fit fine.

Long live the President. May he prove the Nay Sayers wrong.

Did I just unintentionally make a reference to the Party of No? :)

LOL...neck waders indeed... :))

Good to see you bro.

Seen Scott today?

Hey Scott, glad to see you are back.

Now THOSE needed to be deleted. Thanks for the good job.

Oliver North is a disgrace to the Uniform, the Country and to his family.

For him to claim anyone else is Anti-American is a joke.

Not everyone who has served in uniform cares about our country.

There have been many who became traitors, murderers and domestic terrorists. But we won't talk about them. Oly's conduct stands alone to show that the uniform does not make the man.

President Obama is very American. He is the leader of our country and as such puts his life on the line for us all every day. He made a choice and a journey to become the President against great odds and opposition. He faces the job with dignity and respect. In spite of those who try to destroy him and threaten his life he gets up everyday and works to protect and better all our lives. That would make him a true American Hero.

Long live the President.

You too Oly, but maybe you should just stay retired and stop bad mouthing real Patriots.

Apparently G. Gordon Liddy wasn't available...

SG,

I am sure he is the queue. You'd think such a character wouldn't be a bench warmer but the team is stocked with, ahem, "talent".

Apparently G. Gordon Liddy wasn't available...

LOL...SG, I hear he's been hanging out at Nixon's grave, he figured Satan would have impeached him by now and kicked him out of the underworld.

Usually graves don't spin; it is their passengers.

Good idea though I can't imagine he'd be able to keep up with Goldwater.

sscott ..... and Brown has voted with the Dems a couple times. Hell the man told you people that he would back some things that the Dems like. Get a clue. You are toast on this topic

I try not to care what range of labels one's seek cover under.

One can dance around the the DofI or Constitution language all they what, what resonates with most people is what if fair. The vast majority of people, I think, are willing to accept what the higher courts say is consistent with the Constitution w/o much question. If you or I interpret these documents differently than the last interpretation of the SCOTUS, the BFD to most people. That fact that you are liberatian and label me as leftist freak has absolutely no @!$%#ing relevance except that it make either one of us feel good. Blurry lines? Who gives a @!$%#.

3.1 - though G. Gordon would have had a far more intellectual and stimulating response.

Wormtongue was smooth too.

Liberty? We own "liberty"?

You much rather have equality, not of opportunity

Yes. One speaks about personal greed versus caring for others. I'd rather have equality any day of the week. One of them is tangible, the other doesn't promise anything only the possibility of one day having something.

WE use to export liberty. We were the shining city on the hill that Reagan spoke of.

We don't export liberty. We export jobs. Get it straight.

Try liberty for one, but of course you statists don't believe in it. You much rather have equality, not of opportunity, but of outcome

President Obama Believes in ' Equality" Equality is in our Constitution, and if you call President Obama Un-American, because he wants Equality that's wrong. We all want Peace, but to have a true and lasting peace, We must have respect for other countries as well as our Allies. Furthermore as for Apoligizing to our Allies, someone had to, I mean Bush/Republicans Abandoned Not only the Afghan people, but he aBandoned our troops, Allies, and NATO, to fight an illegal war, and that to me as a Veteran is Un-American.

Freedom was, and is, not exported by the United States. It may some day be imported. The United States was not free before the slaves were emancipated and when black citizens achieved the freedom to vote. The United States is not free when Amercians are denied health care, especially those 45,000 Americans who die each year from lack of access to health care, and who would be guaranteed health care in any other industrialized nation. Only nations who guarantee health care for 100% of their citizens are truly free. The United States may be free someday, but that day is yet to come. Favouring corporate slavery to insurance company profits, against the health and well-being of American citizens is in no way freedom.

sscott, I think you're missing the point here. You're article is useless and beseless using O. North as a reliable source for your argument. His reputation is a bit tainted by past actions which have been proved unreliable. Now, please try to be more on base with any further accusations in the future. Surely you can do better than this.

NO! Obama is not anti-american, period! Case closed! Game, set and match! Check-mate!

Not on topic. Already went over all that, he was not convicted period.

Actually he was. Very much so. It was overturned because he was granted immunity. However, to say he wasn't convicted at all isn't totally accurate.

"So you think its okay for him to bow to foreign leaders?"

Its called diplomacy.

"Or to apologize for America?"

We're not perfect. Thanks to Bush!

"Or to mock people that are exercising their first amendment rights?"

When they don't know what they're talking about.

Do you even know what unamerican is?

totally on topic the man should be in prision..... no creditablity nothing there.

President Obama is not anti-American in the slightest bit, not for a second.

That really doesn't answer the question, but thanks for the reply?

The tea parties are evidence of that.

The teabaggers are losing group they will be a great asset to the Dems this fall.

One thing for sure, Reagan couldn't remember, he had Alzheimer'sduring his second term. When he said he didn't remember, he really didn't. The connection to Iran probably ran much deeper, I always wondered why the Iranis held the hostages until after the election. Having served in the Army for 6 years in the 60s and 70s, I have a good idea of what is anti-American. Defying Congress and lying and then saying his superiors knew what he was doing has that ring of men just following orders, though they knew they were illegal and millions died. Isn't it ironic that over 50 million anti-Americans elected Obama. Some of the most avid war mongers in the 'Patriotic' party applied for and received enough deferments that they avoided the draft. Go back to Bush ones cabinet and research the veterans. Ole George was the only one. Obama is no more anti-American than Dick Cheney, the king of deferments. SScott, who are you trying to fool, you are no more libertarian or independent than fire is cold. The tea parties are evidence of people who wish to commit treason and rebellion. Oh, I have read Jefferson, and we learned just what happens to rebels during the Civil War. The real revolution should take place at the polls. Too many people believe their reps are good and the rest are bad. Until they are all tossed we'll have the same old grid lock and party power, not people power. Scott, keep repeating you're independent, eventually even lies start to sound like the truth. North being an American Hero, criminal and like Simpson freed on technicalities, his fifth amendments rights were infringed, all he had to do was not answer the questions. For him to call Obama anti-American has a hollow ring to it.

sscott

I think if you check, the tea partiers are going to break for the republicans in large numbers.

See you at the polls, we're coming for your leaders.

sscott,

The Tea Party has *always* been about voting Republican. Everybody but themselves realize this. Hell, even the Republican Party knows this, that's why they bankroll all the "bus tours" and provide all the speakers. They are the same minority that voted for McCain/Palin in 2008.

Doing what "you think" is right versus what actually is right are two totally different things. Protecting someone who is breaking the law, being a superior or not is not what I would call honorable. Everyone thinks they are doing to the right thing when they are doing it.

I wouldn't say everybody believes they're doing the right thing, but i do believe North did believe that. Really a semantic argument though

Well if it's a game of semantics then your statement that he was doing the right thing isn't quite solid enough to vindicate him now is it?

Doesn't lessen him either. He was a soldier, and not exactly entitled to free will. That he believed in his presidents cause or what have you is an aspect of being a soldier. No soldier wants to face death or imprisonment when they don't believe...that is why they follow orders to the best of their ability and leave policy to their commanding officers and/or their commander in chief. I'm not even judging the situation itself, but it helps to understand the mindset a soldier has to adopt when serving.

How is it possible to label someone else hypocritical within a hypocritical situation?

Doesn't lessen him either. He was a soldier, and not exactly entitled to free will. That he believed in his presidents cause or what have you is an aspect of being a soldier. No soldier wants to face death or imprisonment when they don't believe...that is why they follow orders to the best of their ability and leave policy to their commanding officers and/or their commander in chief. I'm not even judging the situation itself, but it helps to understand the mindset a soldier has to adopt when serving.

Everyone has free will. That's a lesson most parents teach their children at the age of 2. I come from a military family so I understand the mindset very well. However, breaking the law can't be easily justified. At the end of day what exactly are you fighting for if what you are fighting for can be easily broken by someone else just as long as the cause personally justifies the means. Why have laws then? Why have the Constitution?

It's a catch 22 situation IMO...damned if you do, damned if you don't...

It's a catch 22 situation IMO...damned if you do, damned if you don't...

It might have been. In those situations you bow out.

They aren't disrupting the thread at all. There's enough criminals on both sides of the aisle. However, I would be the last person to hold any politician, or military official who gets involved in politics to any kind of moral standard that would provoke me to create a thread including them as proof of another politician's largess of criminal intent. It creates a situation of being hoisted by your own petard.

They aren't disrupting the thread at all. There's enough criminals on both sides of the aisle. However, I would be the last person to hold any politician, or military official who gets involved in politics to any kind of moral standard that would provoke me to create a thread including them as proof of another politician's largess of criminal intent. It creates a situation of being hoisted by your own petard.

I agree totally, but if I posted what you said he'll delete it so I'll just quote you...

Good Morning Scott,

I hope you are out there.

I want to try something new. We disagree on a lot of subjects. So I would like to invite you to sit down and discuss these issues so at the very least we can calmly agree to disagree.

I would like to extend my hand to ease tensions, to show there is no weapon in it, to show that I am willing to meet in the middle to overcome our diverse viewpoints and as Human Beings find some place that we can move forward, together.

Wear whatever clothes you want to, bring your signs, I will not turn you away or riducule you for who you are. I will simply do my best to enlighten you to my way of looking at things and will expect you to do the same.

If in the end you think me a fool, a traitor, an Anti-American, a member of some gang out to embarrass you, then please feel free to pick up your signs and go home. But then you will know that you at least gave it your best. As a true American.

There is no Reality, only perception. My perception is that together we will succeed and prosper. If we fight each other we all fail. Then the next thing we know we will be a suburb of China or something.

How about it?

You need to get out more. While arguable his first year was shaky, a lot of that was because of trying to spend an inordinate amount of time on domestic issues and revamping the two wars that he was handed. A lot of credible foreign policy analysts think he is doing better now.

He has managed to continue on with what Bush was trying to do in his second term - fix the damage done by Bush in his first term. Of course I'm not expecting you, like Hannity or North, to approve of anything he has done, so I'll not check back on this seed.

LOL...I was amazed, with all the bull@!$%#, they didn't even wear boots.

In a nutshell.

He's a Fox News Commentator for Christ Sake Only Real Americans Work There! sarc

Thank you Tyler.

And thank you Scott for going back and spending the time to rethink and restore those you did.

I myself don't drink Kool-Aid, it's a personal thing. My oldest daughter was visiting relatives and walked across the street to buy some. She was hit by a car and killed on her way back.

But I would be happy to share a pitcher of beer or bottle of whiskey with you sometime if you want to sit around and agree to disagree.

It would be a shame if you took all this to heart and walked away. You would be missed.

Tyler restored 1. first comment deleted by me ever restored. And he said it was borderline.

Scott,

Had I known you'd be gloating over your nearly spotless record, I would have sought review of my comments that you deleted capriciously on other threads. Usually appealing to Newsvine is not worth the trouble because not much of what I write (or you for that matter) is especially precious.

No, Scott, I got it all right.